tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post830201284663377835..comments2023-06-10T03:06:39.748-06:00Comments on In These Gay Mormon Shoes: ARG: Elder Oaks & Elder Wickman on SGA - Part 8Jonathan Adamsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03888679384571699094noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-44649148199926463822011-01-06T03:21:25.447-07:002011-01-06T03:21:25.447-07:00Well, I can agree with you about that. You will c...Well, I can agree with you about that. You will continue to be able to love that guy on the otherside. I think that must be a given considering how fair God is with his children.Steven Lesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01285355643172321289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-74723204859874918882011-01-05T18:13:28.231-07:002011-01-05T18:13:28.231-07:00@Steven- I can agree with that to an extent. Perha...@Steven- I can agree with that to an extent. Perhaps the feelings that make you think "oh, he's hot or she's hot" will not exist, but even sex is much more than lust. It is the deepest expression of love between two people. I'm not so sure heaven would limit our expressions of love. If anything, it would add to the ways we can express love. Furthermore, even shallow comments like "he's hot" come from a deeper, more real appreciation for beauty. Where do we draw the line between appreciation and lust? I don't know. I am willing to accept that perhaps our feelings of love and lust will be different in some ways, but for the most part, I think that what we feel now, we will feel then. It is still our same spirit and same body having the same knowledge and experience.<br /><br />Anyway, the major issue I have is simply with the idea that I will no longer love the man I choose to be with during this life. It doesn't feel right and it doesn't right true to me in the way I understand the gospel.<br /><br />Lastly, it is true that relationships are scary. No one wants to be hurt. But I think that the risk is well worth the experience of loving and being loved.<br /><br />@Jen- Thanks! I really appreciate your comments.Jonathan Adamsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03888679384571699094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-17097902710233446752011-01-05T14:43:40.747-07:002011-01-05T14:43:40.747-07:00There is nothing offensive or disrespectful about ...There is nothing offensive or disrespectful about what you have written. It has a lot of power, and I wouldn't change a thing about it.<br /><br />I still see these men as speaking from a very small understanding. What they are saying helps them to make sense of their world, but doesn't actually apply to yours.<br /><br />I really appreciate the things you write, so thanks for writing.jenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07609613967033394629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-41669497241644358152011-01-05T13:25:09.695-07:002011-01-05T13:25:09.695-07:00And that is not the God you worship, indeed. Sexu...And that is not the God you worship, indeed. Sexuality, itself, is lust. It is a reproductive urge within the physical brain that is activated during puberty, but its direction is set from birth, and that direction scans the whole field of definitions. However, lust is not love. The marvelous oneness that comes from lust-empowered attraction between two (or even three or more) people is much different. That is love and it should never be confused with lust itself. Why is it insulting? A relationship is NEVER based on just nothing but lust, and what will remain after death will be that higher something that bound two people together down here, and the lust that started it off won't be felt to muddy it all up, either. That won't change.Steven Lesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01285355643172321289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-67763291288719316512011-01-05T12:28:36.963-07:002011-01-05T12:28:36.963-07:00Elder Wickman's doctrinal assertion seems to c...Elder Wickman's doctrinal assertion seems to come out of left field. The only other time/place prior to this incident that I have seen a similar assertion was from an Ensign article by Elder Holland. His assertion has never felt right to me, in fact, the feelings I experience while reading his answer are exactly opposite of those that the spirit would produce.<br /><br />And to be frank, the direct association of homosexuality with lust is insulting. Are we really going to tell gay parents that have loved and served each other and their children for decades that their relationship was based on nothing but lust, and won't exist in the next life? Will their family bring them nothing but "sorrow and grief and the loss of eternal opportunities"? A God that would treat his children in such a way is not the God that I worshiped for so many years.El Geniohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02801064758712821345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-82883548095794597852011-01-05T05:17:34.324-07:002011-01-05T05:17:34.324-07:00Well, now you know from whom I got the doctrine ex...Well, now you know from whom I got the doctrine explanation that death conquers gay lusting. He told me that very same thing way before the Q & A thing came out. He backed it up with the same argument that I wrote down in a one of my rants from before: that lust is of the body and wasn't felt in the pre-existence nor will be felt as spirits in Paradise, because the lust is, once again, entirely of the mortal body. I was visiting his home during one Christmas, and I respected him greatly then, even as I do now, and although he wasn't a G.A. at the time, he was the biggest thing that I knew. So, I believed him, and I must say, still do.<br /><br />Yet, I just read your article dated December 10th, and I think that you have some valid arguments on your side, too. I think that the two sides can be reconciled.<br /><br />I am imagining a scenario that involves the tender relationship you and your boyfriend had up until recently. I can see that he must have looked handsome to your lustful side, good body, great kisser, strong hand holding your own, which sent some thrills through you physically. Perfectly natural, of course, but there was certainly more to your relationship than just those things. You shared some of them in that excellent paragraph so tenderly written a few entries below. And all of those binding qualities that transcended the bodily lustfulness and entered into the truly loving side of the equation, from puppy-love to spiritual alignment, if you will, are now entered into your memory with a happiness and goodness on a scale unlike anything you ever knew before.<br /><br />He was your first, and that he will always be for eternity. You and he are bonded now with that singular distinction forever, and whether or not you two ever get together again during this mortality, you will certainly see each other on the otherside, and then you'll see each other and the love aspects will be remembered and you'll probably kiss again and hold hands or whatever else will seem natural at the time, but you feel no lust for him nor he for you at any time, which just leaves the love part, which is the sweeter of the two sides of the equation, wouldn't you agree? Sweet oneness without all of that messy grinding, so to speak.<br /><br />I've never been in a relationship, of course. They scare me. I instinctively know that were I to give my heart to somebody and then it didn't work out, the pain would be worse than anything else I could or can imagine. I know that distance is safety. I've seen the misery that broken relationships force on other people. Why would I want to travel in that direction? So, I'm just imagining how it would be with you and your first love, based only on observation but no experience in the least.<br /><br />One minute in Paradise would clear up so much confusion, man. The closest thing to that which I have found is found in the Near Death Experience. I've read hundreds of them. They offer me much hope.Steven Lesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01285355643172321289noreply@blogger.com