tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post6717290482310783290..comments2023-06-10T03:06:39.748-06:00Comments on In These Gay Mormon Shoes: THT: Am I My Brother's Keeper?Jonathan Adamsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03888679384571699094noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-86700447708491087402011-03-25T17:33:47.038-06:002011-03-25T17:33:47.038-06:00@Sean- Harsh. However, I do like the thing you sai...@Sean- Harsh. However, I do like the thing you said about members challenging unchristian teachings if they indeed valued being a Christian. I never think of members as "deceived" or like I somehow need to wake them up so they can smell the coffee. I think that Mormonism really does work for some people. It is what makes them happy. It is what they want in life. It brings them true peace and purpose. Why should I be angry that they have found that? I wish everyone could feel that sense of belonging and peace and purpose. What I do feel obligated to speak out on is when what brings them peace and purpose and happiness is being forced upon others as if it is the answer for everyone. THAT is when I cannot stay silent.<br /><br />@jen- I wonder how that can be done. For my family, it was me coming out to them that made them realize how ignorant they had been about homosexuality. But that doesn't work for everyone. I'm not sure there is one answer that will work like magic. I think the only thing we can do is to be open about how we feel and about our experiences. It is hard sometimes because they are very personal, and honestly, no one's business. But if we are to seek understanding... we have to be willing to make ourselves a little vulnerable and let people see inside of us. See the hurt, the pain, the struggle. Take off that strong game face every now and then and help them see into our soul. It is easy to be on the defensive. But once we do, the other side simply writes us off as evil, confused, messed up, etc, etc.Jonathan Adamsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03888679384571699094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-33507901116251795582011-03-25T17:23:42.333-06:002011-03-25T17:23:42.333-06:00@Jen- I know the feeling. It is hard to locate the...@Jen- I know the feeling. It is hard to locate the source of hurt. While I believe the brethern have a great responsibility since they do claim to speak in behalf of God, I think that it is just as justifiable to hold followers responsible. It is each of our responsibility to consider, ponder, and apply what is said by anyone (claiming to speak truth) to what our own life experiences have taught us. When people put blinders up and simply accept everything that comes out of the mouth of a person, that is where things get dangerous. If people would take the time to really find the truth of what was said, leaders wouldn't be able to teach people false things... whether intentional or unintentional.<br /><br />@Anonymous- I agree that perhaps, at the time, leaders didn't realize what they were doing was wrong. But this doesn't excuse them from taking responsibility for what has been done and to take action to undue the harm that has been done. Knowing that what was done was abusive and then not trying to make things better is just as bad as allowing those actions to continue. But they can't even muster a simple apology, recognizing and accepting responsibility for making mistakes that were (and are) harmful.<br /><br />@apronkid- SO TRUE. It is so hard when extended family members or other people refer to my being gay as a challenge. Usually, along with that they say something along the lines of having faith and trusting the lord to overcome challenges. Being gay is just as much of a "challenge" as being straight. What? You are straight? That must be SO hard! There is no reason that it should be a challenge. It is only because of the perceptions of others that it is any sort of a challenge. It has nothing to do with being gay in and of itself.Jonathan Adamsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03888679384571699094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-16421739436345577372011-03-25T17:13:09.357-06:002011-03-25T17:13:09.357-06:00@Trev- Nothing in particular. I've had these t...@Trev- Nothing in particular. I've had these thoughts for a long time, I just haven't written them. Back when blacks were given the priesthood, the prophet basically apologized and said forget everything we have told you about blacks. These days, any mistakes that are made are not acknowledged by the brethren. At most it is handed off to the PR department to handle.<br /><br />@Steven- I wouldn't call the leaders of the church the "sons of cain." I do not believe that they are doing anything maliciously. Also... I do not believe that sharing my thoughts on this matter is dangerous by any means. There is nothing for me to fear. I believe that the leaders of the church are generally good people who are trying to do what they believe is best. However, they are men and men make mistakes. All I am asking is that responsibility be taken.Jonathan Adamsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03888679384571699094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-58494908204686389892011-03-25T14:08:19.550-06:002011-03-25T14:08:19.550-06:00apronkid - I agree.
You. Are. NOT. Broken!
I wo...apronkid - I agree. <br /><br />You. Are. NOT. Broken!<br /><br />I wonder if there is a way to show people, the ones who really mean well and don't want to hurt anyone, that what they are doing is really hurtful.jenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07609613967033394629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-83096716758924238652011-03-25T09:52:48.321-06:002011-03-25T09:52:48.321-06:00Steven, if the Church was in fact Christian, I don...Steven, if the Church was in fact Christian, I don't believe it deserves that title. one would in fact challenge the leadership in every action they make that is "un-Christian."<br /><br />Indulging in the fear that these men are somehow more powerful, holy, or to be addressed non-confrontationally is invoking humanistic worship and encouraging cultish habits.<br /><br />Their is nothing to fear from the leadership structure of the church. If you are deeply entrenched in LDS culture there are ways out. There is a lot of blood on their hands that will never be washed away no matter how hard they scrub the history of the church. Theirs is one of plausible denial and those who place all their trust and faith in these men "because 'God' will never lead them astray" are those who are truly lost and fallen from grace and reality.<br /><br />The church is very culpable for each life lost at the hands of it spreading fear, hatred, misinformation just to perpetuate the illusion that Mormonism is "God's only right way." It is abuse of power and spirituality and they will indeed be judged accordingly.<br /><br />Pray for those still deceived by the illusion that Mormonism and it's cultural Zion is somehow the sacred and blessed land of OZ hallowed by Joseph Smith's idea of God. Their is a man behind a curtain. Have the courage to pull back that curtain and see who's there. Is most definitely is not Jesus.Seanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04561860729984232424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-12240612089736768412011-03-25T00:22:39.728-06:002011-03-25T00:22:39.728-06:00I've been feeling a lot of frustration and ang...I've been feeling a lot of frustration and anger lately too... I don't think it's just you jen.<br /><br />Luckily, my bishop is very accepting of who I am, but what has really really been making me angry is the way I here my roommates talk about gay members of the Church. The lack of care and the denial of responsibility on the Brethren's part has bled into the beliefs of these essentially good, well-meaning people. They whisper the word "gay" in hushed tones as if Satan were listening to them, and they tear apart the supposed "gay lifestyle" (whatever that is)... As if they were really in a fit place to judge others!<br /><br />The worst is when gay members are pitied. When being gay becomes a burden to be born, and the gay member becomes a special project because he/she has such an enormous challenge... that's when I get really angry. I. Am. Not. Broken.<br /><br />Thanks for the post. It reminds me of my responsibilities as a Christian to more fully love my neighbors, no matter who they might be.Elliothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12267445399650498944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-73667751279863316082011-03-24T18:17:11.846-06:002011-03-24T18:17:11.846-06:00"They knew not what they were actually doing ..."They knew not what they were actually doing to me."-Steven Lester<br />So true. I've been there. I think we have to put aversion therapy and pushing heterosexual marriage in the context of the times.<br /><br />Most of the Church leaders that supported these ideas were operating with ignorance at the time.<br />They really didn't know better. I suppose you can say ignorance is no excuse. I think it may have been then. It isn't anymore.<br /><br />There's no excuse for spouting anti-gay words in a General Conference, having a double standard for gay members or for some (few I hope)members treating members and former members poorly.<br /><br />I left and I can't get it through my thick skull why I miss it in many ways. Maybe I miss the good members or that perceived wall of protection.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-90490454705525594242011-03-24T14:19:10.889-06:002011-03-24T14:19:10.889-06:00Jonathan channels Martin Luther and the 95 Theses....Jonathan channels Martin Luther and the 95 Theses.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02992194211469009236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-90903629484494805482011-03-24T14:14:24.147-06:002011-03-24T14:14:24.147-06:00This is a very impressive post.
I'm currently...This is a very impressive post. <br />I'm currently feeling incredibly angry. And I am not sure who to be angry at: The bishop that was just following the counsel? My parents who thought they were doing what was right? The seminary teacher? The friends? And I've finally come to the place that the leaders of the church have responsibility. They speak in the name of God, and that gives them a lot of credibility. All of the people that repeat and BELIEVE what they teach have some responsibility, but I have a hard time being angry at them... <br /><br />(I'm not sure if I made sense. Currently experiencing a lot of anger, and I am not as rational as I would like to be.)jenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07609613967033394629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-65406749397897906812011-03-24T06:35:05.804-06:002011-03-24T06:35:05.804-06:00Thank you, Jonathan. A powerful declaration and co...Thank you, Jonathan. A powerful declaration and condemnation, this. You are taking on the Leadership, always a dangerous thing to do. Can you imagine what would happen if you were to type this up in a letter and send it to the "Prophet", especially if it had been publicized first? I have some ideas, but I would prefer not to scare you in the telling of them. <br /><br />The worshipped Brethren only care about power. Over people. Over wealth, itself. They believe that only self justifies any kind of action; indeed, they are the most selfish of men alive today; wolves in sheep's clothing; unafraid of God's justice because they do not believe in Him at all, all verbiage aside. They are despicable! They are literally the sons of Cain. <br /><br />I am, by the way, one of those who was never given callings or ever allowed to speak at Church (or even to offer prayers). I did always take the Sacrament, though. Years ago. Before I decided to leave the pain of being ostracized behind me, not that anybody ever noticed my absence, or cared about it.<br /><br />Isn't it amazing how different the real Church is from the glorified image that was presented to me by the missionaries in 1976? I forgive them, though. It was never their fault. They knew not what they were actually doing to me.Steven Lesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01285355643172321289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2730636855717448971.post-27742076292634054242011-03-24T06:00:28.308-06:002011-03-24T06:00:28.308-06:00Whoa, what triggered this?Whoa, what triggered this?Trevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03258097334170692217noreply@blogger.com